First and foremost, no scripture teaches tithing applies to a group. Tithing does not apply to a continent, a country, a state, a city, a church, a school, a business as the people who make it up, etc. It only applies to individuals.
Secondly, if a church could support a pastor full time, but chooses not to because of the mission support, I think it may not help that particular church get a pastor. God can and does provide for missions through numerous churches. God rarely provides financially for an organized church by other churches, though. As strongly as some believe God will financially take care of your church if it gives to missions (which by the way, hasn't proven to be the case concerning supporting a pastor), I equally as strongly believe God will take care of a mission without one church's support which cannot support itself. The church can be 100% supportive of mission work by witnessing, and supporting their pastor full time in their own local mission field.
I do, however, believe if a church does send money to a mission, God won't hinder that church or be upset with it. After all, I could sell all my possessions and give them to the church, and God would be pleased. He does not require it, but He does not speak against it either. This is purely offering, and a matter of the hearts of the individuals of each church.
Another question, should a mission turn around and send the money we send her to another mission as a "group tithe"?
Good question. I have seen missions in Texas report proudly how they have given hundreds of dollars to missions that month when, in fact, THEY ARE A MISSION THEMSELVES.
The late Travis Case (ABA pastor in Fort Worth, I believe) posted a sermon on the internet once concerning this subject. He boldly stated that a church is robbing their pastor if he is "part-time" (and working another job) and they are sending hundreds of dollars to missions each month. Strong statement which very few would be bold enough to make.
As a state missionary, I receive support from churches who can, and those who can not support their pastor full time. I could never tell a church that they should support me if I knew their pastor was having to work around the clock to make ends meet. However, if one of these churches sends me support, I use it to further the mission.
I have seen the attitude where some believe supporting missions is more important than supporting their pastor. That attitude is wrong.
Now if a pastor chooses to be bivocational, that's a whole other issue.
On missions giving to missions... I was told that if Grace Pointe didn't start giving to missions, we could expect heavy questioning come associational time (that was told to me by a certain individual, NOT an associational officer). Not withstanding that advice, I've led Grace Pointe to give to missions for the simple reason that I am trying to plant a missions-minded church... it's never too early to start. They are supporting missions on a small level, and they are supporting me on a small level. Hopefully, both of those elements of our finances will continue to grow.
Agreed brother. No matter what the financial condition of a church or mission, hopefully they will give some to missions as a way of modeling and/or actually carrying out the Great Commission.
Bro. Snyde, I didn't follow you on the tithing part. Are you saying that tithing applies to individuals (which you know I don't agree with but that's OK) but does not apply to churches? Are you referencing how some churches tithe to missions, etc.??
Yes, some churches believe they must give at least 10% to missions. The idea of a church "tithing" seems comical to me. The entire principle is for God's men to eat in the first place (priests in the OT, pastors in the New). It is support of the ministry. I just find it hard to swallow that the Old Testament tabernacle gave 10% of what it received to other places or nations. A group tithe is silly.
Good information for me here. I have struggled with this myself since we are a mission in Farmerville. Thankfully, the Lord has blessed us so much that we are down to only $85,000.00 owing on our building. Farmerville is a not a thriving town. A majority of the people there are very low paid or are not even employed and living on welfare and other government help. This makes it difficult when we only have a minimal amount of members who do tithe appropriately. The others can't give or just don't realize what they should be giving. Joe and I are blessed to have the jobs we have, others aren't so blessed.
We are growing as we have just added two new members there. The man is a preacher and his dad did missionary work in the Phillipines whom recently passed away.
We do give to other missions. We divide it up among three different missions. Is this the appropriate thing to do?
A church sending financial support for other churches is a principal found in the Bible. Only a church (which I consider a mission to be) can decide how much and to whom it sends. So is it "appropriate", I know not. All I know for sure is there is no principal set forth saying a church or a mission has to send 10%. So if they are doing it out of a feeling of duty or responsibility (to tithe), I would encourage them to stop doing so in that fashion, and just give however much they feel led to give (10% or not).
I don't have any lurking arguments to make. Just curious what the consensus is.
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost, no scripture teaches tithing applies to a group. Tithing does not apply to a continent, a country, a state, a city, a church, a school, a business as the people who make it up, etc. It only applies to individuals.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, if a church could support a pastor full time, but chooses not to because of the mission support, I think it may not help that particular church get a pastor. God can and does provide for missions through numerous churches. God rarely provides financially for an organized church by other churches, though. As strongly as some believe God will financially take care of your church if it gives to missions (which by the way, hasn't proven to be the case concerning supporting a pastor), I equally as strongly believe God will take care of a mission without one church's support which cannot support itself. The church can be 100% supportive of mission work by witnessing, and supporting their pastor full time in their own local mission field.
I do, however, believe if a church does send money to a mission, God won't hinder that church or be upset with it. After all, I could sell all my possessions and give them to the church, and God would be pleased. He does not require it, but He does not speak against it either. This is purely offering, and a matter of the hearts of the individuals of each church.
Another question, should a mission turn around and send the money we send her to another mission as a "group tithe"?
Good question. I have seen missions in Texas report proudly how they have given hundreds of dollars to missions that month when, in fact, THEY ARE A MISSION THEMSELVES.
ReplyDeleteThe late Travis Case (ABA pastor in Fort Worth, I believe) posted a sermon on the internet once concerning this subject. He boldly stated that a church is robbing their pastor if he is "part-time" (and working another job) and they are sending hundreds of dollars to missions each month. Strong statement which very few would be bold enough to make.
As a state missionary, I receive support from churches who can, and those who can not support their pastor full time. I could never tell a church that they should support me if I knew their pastor was having to work around the clock to make ends meet. However, if one of these churches sends me support, I use it to further the mission.
ReplyDeleteI have seen the attitude where some believe supporting missions is more important than supporting their pastor. That attitude is wrong.
Now if a pastor chooses to be bivocational, that's a whole other issue.
On missions giving to missions... I was told that if Grace Pointe didn't start giving to missions, we could expect heavy questioning come associational time (that was told to me by a certain individual, NOT an associational officer). Not withstanding that advice, I've led Grace Pointe to give to missions for the simple reason that I am trying to plant a missions-minded church... it's never too early to start. They are supporting missions on a small level, and they are supporting me on a small level. Hopefully, both of those elements of our finances will continue to grow.
Agreed brother. No matter what the financial condition of a church or mission, hopefully they will give some to missions as a way of modeling and/or actually carrying out the Great Commission.
ReplyDeleteBro. Snyde, I didn't follow you on the tithing part. Are you saying that tithing applies to individuals (which you know I don't agree with but that's OK) but does not apply to churches?
Are you referencing how some churches tithe to missions, etc.??
Yes, some churches believe they must give at least 10% to missions. The idea of a church "tithing" seems comical to me. The entire principle is for God's men to eat in the first place (priests in the OT, pastors in the New). It is support of the ministry. I just find it hard to swallow that the Old Testament tabernacle gave 10% of what it received to other places or nations. A group tithe is silly.
ReplyDeleteGood information for me here. I have struggled with this myself since we are a mission in Farmerville. Thankfully, the Lord has blessed us so much that we are down to only $85,000.00 owing on our building. Farmerville is a not a thriving town. A majority of the people there are very low paid or are not even employed and living on welfare and other government help. This makes it difficult when we only have a minimal amount of members who do tithe appropriately. The others can't give or just don't realize what they should be giving. Joe and I are blessed to have the jobs we have, others aren't so blessed.
ReplyDeleteWe are growing as we have just added two new members there. The man is a preacher and his dad did missionary work in the Phillipines whom recently passed away.
We do give to other missions. We divide it up among three different missions. Is this the appropriate thing to do?
A church sending financial support for other churches is a principal found in the Bible. Only a church (which I consider a mission to be) can decide how much and to whom it sends. So is it "appropriate", I know not. All I know for sure is there is no principal set forth saying a church or a mission has to send 10%. So if they are doing it out of a feeling of duty or responsibility (to tithe), I would encourage them to stop doing so in that fashion, and just give however much they feel led to give (10% or not).
ReplyDelete