I would say that if Adrian Neal pastored there before...it would then be unpastorable.
oh let me make my smiley face :) so you know I'm kidding.
I pastored for 1 1/2 years a Church once. I was the 8th or 9th pastor in 7 years or so. I look back...and while I learned alot I thik they wanted a preacher not a pastor.
What's the difference you ask? A preacher is invited to preach at a Church and he prays about his message and preaches the Word and it is accepted as preaching. A Pastor prays about his message, preaches his message to his flock and it is recieved (sometimes) as meddling in their affairs and lives instead of God's Word to them.
Here is what happens in "unpastorable" Churches. During the honeymoon stage all is great and wonderful and he is the best preacher they have ever heard. Over time, he gets to know his people better and his messages get more pointed and the people begin to feel something that they don't like, CONVICTION.
They don't know what to do with this feeling or what it is they just know that it comes from the "pastor", not "preacher" anymore. The next you know problems start to arise and they will vote to either vacate the pulpit or send someone to talk to the "pastor".
This is not every Church thankfully...but I think this is what is meant by unpastorable.
From time to time I think I pastor some that are unpastorable and when I want to throw my hands up and say they're not worth it, I stop and think about how my Savior has loved me the most when I was the most unpastorable person.
A seminary instructor told me to always remember to not take things so personal, when pastoring sheep, many are going to be sick. They're just sick sheep!!!!
OOPS, I didn't answer the question. I think Big J hit the nail on the head. Many are set in their ways, and are creatures of habit. When you mess with their ecosystem, they become defensive.
When they will not follow a pastor who is following Christ, they are unpastorable ifbe a man head deacon or a bell cow(female member) that every in the church bows down to rather than standing up for following the pastor as he follows the Lord. I've even heard of churches that did not trust their pastor to moderate business meetings for fear he would side with the other faction in the church.
Because of "unbelief" Jesus could do no mighty works there. The same is true about churches! Jesus can do no work at all in a church because of "unbelief."
Another reason that rings true with Bro. Richard's comments are:
If there is a strong-willed deacon or man or woman that will not let the pastor lead the church, then that church WILL BE UNPASTORABLE!!
By strong-willed, someone who always wants THEIR WAY. They may talk like a Christian, but if they don't get THEIR WAY, they don't act like a Christian!
They usually are very nice, but not if they don't get THEIR WAY!!
A real Christian is someone who talks like a Christian and walks like a Christian even if they never get THEIR WAY!!!!
According to the Bible (Phil. 2) one should even prefer "others ahead of your own self!"
In other words being HUMBLE!!!!!!!
Something those "unpastorable" churches and people have a problem with.
At the Judgement, the Lord is going to have a problem with that church and those people. I don't read anywhere in the Bible, where that is going to be a pleasant experience!
I get it...they want THEIR WAY! What's sad is that churches who have "a tag or reputation" as being this way, does not believe that they are unpastorable. Everyone in the ABA probably knows, but they refuse to admit it. I've noticed in these churches, or amongst certain people in these churches, that there is a tendency to criticize, de-value, or generally bad-mouth former pastors or preachers in general. Bro. Tim...good quote "When you mess with their ecosystem, they become defensive." Maybe you should write a book?! And 'tis true, Jesus loves us even though we are unlovable sometimes.
Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."
The pastor is sent by God. He may not be perfect. But his spiritual direction and his vision should be followed (or at least strongly considered) unless he proves himself unfit. When his suggestions/preaching/advice no longer has influence or impact...it's over.
I would say that if Adrian Neal pastored there before...it would then be unpastorable.
ReplyDeleteoh let me make my smiley face :) so you know I'm kidding.
I pastored for 1 1/2 years a Church once. I was the 8th or 9th pastor in 7 years or so. I look back...and while I learned alot I thik they wanted a preacher not a pastor.
What's the difference you ask? A preacher is invited to preach at a Church and he prays about his message and preaches the Word and it is accepted as preaching. A Pastor prays about his message, preaches his message to his flock and it is recieved (sometimes) as meddling in their affairs and lives instead of God's Word to them.
Here is what happens in "unpastorable" Churches. During the honeymoon stage all is great and wonderful and he is the best preacher they have ever heard. Over time, he gets to know his people better and his messages get more pointed and the people begin to feel something that they don't like, CONVICTION.
They don't know what to do with this feeling or what it is they just know that it comes from the "pastor", not "preacher" anymore. The next you know problems start to arise and they will vote to either vacate the pulpit or send someone to talk to the "pastor".
This is not every Church thankfully...but I think this is what is meant by unpastorable.
From time to time I think I pastor some that are unpastorable and when I want to throw my hands up and say they're not worth it, I stop and think about how my Savior has loved me the most when I was the most unpastorable person.
ReplyDeleteA seminary instructor told me to always remember to not take things so personal, when pastoring sheep, many are going to be sick. They're just sick sheep!!!!
OOPS, I didn't answer the question. I think Big J hit the nail on the head. Many are set in their ways, and are creatures of habit. When you mess with their ecosystem, they become defensive.
ReplyDeleteAgreed...Big J
ReplyDeleteAmen...Tim
Re-phrased: What are some SPECIFIC INDICATORS that a church is "unpastorable" (or close to it)?
When they will not follow a pastor who is following Christ, they are unpastorable ifbe a man head deacon or a bell cow(female member) that every in the church bows down to rather than standing up for following the pastor as he follows the Lord. I've even heard of churches that did not trust their pastor to moderate business meetings for fear he would side with the other faction in the church.
ReplyDeleteMatthew 13:58
ReplyDeleteand Mark 6:6
Because of "unbelief" Jesus could do no mighty works there. The same is true about churches!
Jesus can do no work at all in a church because of "unbelief."
Another reason that rings true with Bro. Richard's comments are:
If there is a strong-willed deacon or man or woman that will not let the pastor lead the church, then that church WILL BE UNPASTORABLE!!
By strong-willed, someone who always wants THEIR WAY. They may talk like a Christian, but if they don't get THEIR WAY, they don't act like a Christian!
They usually are very nice, but not if they don't get THEIR WAY!!
A real Christian is someone who talks like a Christian and walks like a Christian even if they never get THEIR WAY!!!!
According to the Bible (Phil. 2) one should even prefer "others ahead of your own self!"
In other words being HUMBLE!!!!!!!
Something those "unpastorable" churches and people have a problem with.
At the Judgement, the Lord is going to have a problem with that church and those people. I don't read anywhere in the Bible, where that is going to be a pleasant experience!
I get it...they want THEIR WAY!
ReplyDeleteWhat's sad is that churches who have "a tag or reputation" as being this way, does not believe that they are unpastorable. Everyone in the ABA probably knows, but they refuse to admit it.
I've noticed in these churches, or amongst certain people in these churches, that there is a tendency to criticize, de-value, or generally bad-mouth former pastors or preachers in general.
Bro. Tim...good quote "When you mess with their ecosystem, they become defensive."
Maybe you should write a book?!
And 'tis true, Jesus loves us even though we are unlovable sometimes.
Churches that have allowed Satan in the door are becoming more and more prevalent these days. These are definitely "unpastorable."
ReplyDeleteIf there is no one there to lead the flock, who is going to tell them which direction to go? Enters.... Satan.
The wolves have overtaken the sheep.
ReplyDeleteJeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."
ReplyDeleteThe pastor is sent by God. He may not be perfect. But his spiritual direction and his vision should be followed (or at least strongly considered) unless he proves himself unfit.
When his suggestions/preaching/advice no longer has influence or impact...it's over.