Most ABA churches seem to take great care that the bread used for the Lord's Supper is unleavened and acceptable according to the scriptures. Some pastors or deacons even prepare and cook their own bread. I have done so and kind of enjoyed doing it.
My question is this: If we take so much care with regards to the bread, why do we usually run down to the nearest supermarket and buy the first bottle of grape juice we see (usually Welch's) which contains additives and impurities? Does it matter?
This is where I would like the discussion to center, but if you would like to jump in and defend wine OR grape juice, it might make for some interesting discussion.
Just a guess, but additives and impurities are better than the toe jam freshly squeezed might include.
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, good question. I prefer freshly squeezed fruit of the vine. That's right, watermelon juice or cantelope juice.
"seriously" Do you really think that watermelon juice or cantelope juice was used?
ReplyDeleteI have purchased Kedem Grape Juice which is a kosher juice that has no additives or preservatives.
Also, there is a way to squeeze grapes to keep the toe jam funk out of the way. Put them in a tea towel and squeeze the fool out of them.
I believe the same seriousness that we consider when preparing the unleavened bread should also be taken when picking out the GRAPE JUICE.
ReplyDeleteHe better be kidding about the watermelons and cantelopes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-(
I think most people see 100% juice and believe that is sufficient.
ReplyDeleteTo take care with the bread and then just run down to the supermarket and buy whatever grape juice you see first is very inconsistent. Yes, it does matter. If one matters, both matter. If one doesn't matter, neither matter.
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ReplyDeleteWhy don't they sell the juice next to the bread at the christian bookstores? One that fits Lord Supper Quality like the bread. I should not post this until I have a deal with the bookstores. I could make millions.
ReplyDeleteI was serious about "Good question", but I was just making play on words "fruit of the vine". Sorry it didn't come across as such.
ReplyDeleteI agree with my pastor's assessment, by the way.
ReplyDeleteI can see it now..."Bro. T's Original Grape Juice"
ReplyDeleteWithout naming names or pastors, does anyone know of ABA churches that use wine for the Lord's Supper? (just curious...not planning on moving my membership there just to get a drink :)
Bro. Vaughn,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote:
"Yes, it does matter. If one matters, both matter."
I agree. I, for the life of me, cannot understand why some churches will stand for unleavened bread and then serve fermented wine. Both are processes of fermentation and man-made. We serve unleavened bread and grape juice because it pictures the pure body and blood of the Lord and salvation apart from human effort.
Bro. Neal,
My understanding is that there are ABA churches in Arkansas that serve wine for the Lord's Supper.
I wonder approximately how many??
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, who goes to the liquor store and buys it??
ReplyDeleteCan you see one of the deacons walking out of a store with a bottle in a bag? ("Oh, its not for me. It's for the Lord's Supper.")
Brother youngLandmarker... I think the discussion took the turn towards what KIND of grape juice to use. The alcohol wasn't really an issue in this post. We are discussing whether to use "Welch's" grape juice which has preservatives and other impurities, or to find some clean way of squeezing freshly picked grapes.
ReplyDeleteAlso, a question on the side. How long can grapes be produced, and how long could one preserve the juice without it going bad or fermenting during the days of Christ? Just curious, b/c it might give us a small insight as to how often the early churches partook.
I think I helped take the discussion to wine...
ReplyDeleteAccording to Wikipedia, it takes 5 to 14 days for primary fermentation, and then time periods varied for secondary fermentation, ranging from 1-2 weeks OR from 3 to 6 months.
I think the difference may have been in how the juice was heated, stored, etc.
I only assume it would have been close to the same period of time in Jesus' day as this is a chemical process.
BTW, I know of an ABA preacher (and most of you know him too) who filled the pulpit at a church one time and they asked him to administer the Lord's Supper. He told them that he would administer, but he would not partake as he was not a member. They agreed and when it was time to partake, one part of the church moved to the other side of the building, and several others from that side moved to the other side.
ReplyDeleteAfter the Supper was over, the preacher asked about this. He was told the following: "Well, we had the wine vs. grape juice argument many years ago here. So now, those on that side get grape juice. Those on this side get wine. That's how we decided to settle it."
Ingenious Missionary Baptists!!
Well, since this thread "took a turn", I will turn with it. Several ABA churches that I know of in an area in Arkansas use wine. But there are others scattered around in different places in Arkansas, as well as other states. A prominent deceased ABA preacher in Mt. Zion & Shelby County Associations has a sermon outline on wine in the Lord's Supper in the book about him "Fifty Years in East Texas Pulpits."
ReplyDeleteOh, and Brother Adrian, the ones I know do not go to the liquor store -- they make it. For anyone who is concerned about this, it is perfectly legal to make communion wine and they will not be arrested as bootleggers. :-)
Interesting...thanks Bro. Robert
ReplyDeleteHow long does it take to grow grapes and at one times of the year can they be produced?
ReplyDeleteat what times of the year can they be produced*?*
ReplyDelete